Discussion:
So you can buy computer paper/cheap furniture from Walmart
(too old to reply)
g***@hotmail.com
2005-02-24 03:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest

2 hours, 19 minutes ago

By Rodrigo Gaier

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (Reuters) - A Brazilian environmentalist was
killed in an Atlantic rain forest on Tuesday night, only 10 days after
a U.S. nun and activist against illegal logging was murdered in the
Amazon jungle.


Dionisio Ribeiro Filho, 59, was shot in the head with a shotgun at the
Tingua federal reserve, about 19 miles from Rio de Janeiro city, after
he defended it for over 15 years from poachers and illegal palm tree
cutters, police said on Wednesday.


"We suspect some of those people he opposed may have murdered him,"
local police superintendent Roberto Cardoso told Brazil's O'Globo
national television network.


His death followed the Feb. 12 killing of prominent U.S. human rights
and environmental activist Dorothy Stang. She was gunned down in a
suspected contract killing by illegal loggers and ranchers encroaching
on a federal peasant farming reserve she helped establish in the state
of Para.


Ribeiro had received death threats for some time, said Luis Henrique
dos Santos, head of the Tingua reserve and a federal employee.


"We are working against illegal palm cutting and this upset a lot of
people," said dos Santos, who said he and other workers also received
threats.


President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva launched Brazil's biggest ever
crackdown on crime in the Amazon rain forest (news - web sites) after
Stang's murder caused world outrage at death squads used by illegal
loggers and ranchers to invade jungle areas.


MASSIVE DEFORESTATION


Brazilian Environment Minister Marina Silva called on federal police to
investigate Ribeiro's murder.


Some of his friends and colleagues were at a protest against Stang's
murder when they heard of his killing.


"This business of shutting up ecologists and environmentalists with
violence, it's not going to stop," said Edson Bedin, head of Brazil's
federal environmental agency IBAMA in Rio de Janeiro state, which
operates the reserve. "Threats against agents, workers have become
routine."


IBAMA has asked the federal police to protect its workers in the 96
square-mile area of rolling, rain forested hills that are home to flea
toads, jaguars, spider monkeys and other rare and threatened species.


Brazil has already deforested 97 percent of its Atlantic rain forest,
which runs along its coastline and was once a third the size of
Brazil's Amazon jungle.


Ribeiro, a gray-haired man with a mustache and glasses, was a member of
a non-profit environmental organization that helped set up the park in
1989.


Since he retired, Ribeiro had dedicated his life to defending the
reserve against people harvesting palm trees for heart of palm, a
gastronomic delicacy, and trapping tropical birds and animals for
illegal trafficking and for food.


Police in Rio de Janeiro state said they would make the hunt for
Ribeiro's killers a priority.


Police have found two gunmen and an intermediary suspected of planning
and carrying out Stang's killing. They are searching for a rancher who
is said to have paid $19,300 for her murder. A federal prosecutor said
on nationwide television on Wednesday that a consortium of loggers and
ranchers may have hired her murderer.
Robert Sturgeon
2005-02-24 15:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.

(rest snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Furious George
2005-02-24 17:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood, then a
lot of the problem would stop. I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
(rest snipped)
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Bob Brock
2005-02-24 19:04:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood, then a
lot of the problem would stop. I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
If bullfrogs had wings, they wouldn't bump there asses when they
hopped. Now, on a serious note, Wal-Mart sells what people buy. Free
markets have their drawbacks huh?
Robert Sturgeon
2005-02-24 19:19:06 UTC
Permalink
On 24 Feb 2005 09:10:07 -0800, "Furious George"
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood, then a
lot of the problem would stop.
How (and WHY???) do you expect Wal*Mart to police the
international computer paper and furniture markets?
Post by Furious George
I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
Neither do I.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
b***@hotmail.com
2005-02-24 21:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On 24 Feb 2005 09:10:07 -0800, "Furious George"
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood, then a
lot of the problem would stop.
How (and WHY???) do you expect Wal*Mart to police the
international computer paper and furniture markets?
For the same reason that WalMart shouldn't fence any other stolen
property.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by Furious George
I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
Neither do I.
Then you certainly won't mind if they take it from you.
Post by Robert Sturgeon
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Robert Sturgeon
2005-02-25 02:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
On 24 Feb 2005 09:10:07 -0800, "Furious George"
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood,
then a
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by Furious George
lot of the problem would stop.
How (and WHY???) do you expect Wal*Mart to police the
international computer paper and furniture markets?
For the same reason that WalMart shouldn't fence any other stolen
property.
Take it up with Wal*Mart and the DOJ.
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by Furious George
I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
Neither do I.
Then you certainly won't mind if they take it from you.
I'm not worrying about that overly much.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Jik Bombo
2005-02-25 01:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
If WalMart was committed to not buying illegally harvested wood, then a
lot of the problem would stop. I don't think WalMart gives a shit
where the wood in their wood products comes from.
Bullshit.

IKEA
Post by Furious George
Post by Robert Sturgeon
(rest snipped)
--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
Bob G
2005-02-25 13:51:40 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:55:37 -0800, Robert Sturgeon
Post by Robert Sturgeon
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Brazil Environmentalist Shot in Rain Forest
I didn't see any mention of Wal*Mart in the article.
Neither do I.

Besides, I was waiting for the original poster to back up his claims
with some numbers. ie Proof and evidence that Walmart, or any other
particular merchant by name, deliberately and knowingly buys illegally
harvested wood of any sort. With numbers put to the quantities.

I'll take a guess that he or she did not present such because he or
she has no such information. Only a hatred. And in this case,
directed at WalMart. Next week, probably someone else.

Thinking back to what I've seen in the local Walmart, I have seen
rattan furniture, but not much. And the computer paper all seems to
be from US makers. Whom I'd guess don't necessarily go thru great
effort to solicite illegal wood pulp. Why? In Thailand, India,
Indonesia, and many other places palm tree agro-businesses
specifically raise palms on farms, for the explicit purpose of
harvesting the products. Nuts, oils, and fiber material.

Is there really some large market demand in the US for illegal palms?
If so, why? What makes those particular ones so valueable here?
Particularly given that most palm products used here are imported, and
thus one must pay for shipping expenses. Would it be that much
cheaper to use illegal palm material as versus legal palm material for
making of the inexpensive products WalMart is in the business of
promoting as the largest bulk of their sales?

I very much disbelieve that WalMart demands Georgia Pacific paper
company, from whom WalMart buys much of it's computer paper, give them
a complete proof and paper trail of the originations and source of all
the materials Georgia Pacific uses. I doubt they even ask Georgia
Pacific that sort of question. Figuring that's Georgia Pacific's
business and problem.

Any news in papers or on TV about Georgia Pacific being indicted by
federal grand jury for dealing in illegally harvested palm woods? No?
Then if I'm a buyer for WalMart, why ever in the world would I ask em
where they got their materials? What? I'm trying to buy computer
paper to sell. I'm supposed to hire undercover investigators to trace
all the materials used by Georgia Pacific and determine whether or not
they are legal?

I don't think so. Now, that might be relevant and a proper task for
US Customs agents. And the job of the government of Brazil. But if
I'm a buyer for WalMart, why would it be MY responsibility?

The original poster is being ridiculous. So full of hate and
prejudice he or she is not thinking straight. And not doing anything
to advance the cause of conservationists. Of which I am one. I'm a
great believer in conservation. But I'm not an eco-nut and will have
nothing to do with them.

Myself, I will not knowingly buy illegal things and materials. But at
the same time I'm not investigating everyone I buy from.

I gotta wonder, tho. If in fact there is a lot of illegally harvested
palm wood being shipped out of Brazil to other places, why isn't the
poster pointing at the Brazilian authorities as being the ones failing
to uphold their responsibilities? Because in fact, it IS their
responsibility.

Geez. In Minnesota we have quite a bit of protected forest land. And
quite a fair amount of quite legal tree farming, where trees are
planted, grown, and legally harvested for use. Just as corn or
tomatoes might be. I'd expect that the DNR here, plus Federal Rangers
are responsible for looking out for and catching anyone illegally
cutting trees on protected lands. I don't really feel I have a need
to demand proof of origination evidence from the guy down the road who
makes custom furniture from wood as to where he got his wood. He
makes nice stuff. I've bought some. But it never occurred to me to
ASSUME he was getting it illegally just because he was charging a
price I thought to be good and reasonable.

Bob
g***@hotmail.com
2005-03-01 21:46:16 UTC
Permalink
usual long pro-America, free trade, super-capitalist tirade
By "Walmart" I was obviously referring to all the superstores such as
Target, KMart, and on and on. And I wasn't limiting myself to so-called
"illegal timber" as in the present ALL harvested wood is morally
reprehensible. And my rhetoric is needed when red state consumerism
threatens the planet. The title of the post could also be considered
HYPERBOLE, which is often used in arguments and to make a valid point.
Look it up in the dictionary (if you have one, perhaps lurking under
that paintball gun or stack of Penthouse mags). Do you deny that
nearly all pulp comes from overseas and much is harvested illegally?
But it doesn't even matter if it is "legal" because corrupt governments
like Indonesia and Malaysia and Singapore and Thailand and Myanmar and
on and on make the freakin' laws, people! And the U.S./U.S. businesses
support/prop up/do business with all these places!

But that's okay. Just go back to watching stock cars go round and round
an oval track and wetdreaming of being one of these white trash young
pretty boy driver's tire rotater. The wife/girlfriend/assorted sex
slave will take the SUV/F150 and do all your shopping anyway, right?
Bob G
2005-03-03 11:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
usual long pro-America, free trade, super-capitalist tirade
Ummm, if reading is difficult for you, or I'm simply boring you to
death. Might I suggest that there is a [Del] key on your keyboard?
Post by g***@hotmail.com
By "Walmart" I was obviously referring to all the superstores such as
Target, KMart, and on and on. And I wasn't limiting myself to so-called
"illegal timber" as in the present ALL harvested wood is morally
reprehensible.
All harvested wood is morally reprehensible?

Interesting position for you to take.

Is there wood in the building within which you live? In the one where
you work? Do you have any furniture in which wood was used for it's
construction? Do you ever read the newspaper, magazines, or books?
Every carry groceries in paper bags? Use any plastics that were made
from any chemicals or compounds that were derived from wood? Eat any
meat, fruit, or vegetables coming from a farmer or rancher who lives
in a wood house, used wood to make fences, barns, or so forth. Or who
cut down trees to clear land for the growing of his crops and animals?

Hmmm. For that matter, in all likelihood, somebody cut down timber to
clear the land to dig coal, or drill for oil or natural gas, and build
a power plant. To produce electricity. I'd think you should probably
not be using electricity.

It'd seem to me, Green, that you're probably violating your own
self-professed moral code.

Might I suggest you immediately strip yourself of all modern, man made
things? Get off the computer. And immediately go find a cave to live
in. Eat only that which you can grow or find yourself without
disturbing the trees, wear only clothing you make youself, make a fire
only if it's not wood you're using for fuel. Better yet, never, ever
make a fire for any reason whatsoever. I have it on good authority
that trees disapprove of fire. The old oak tree in my front yard told
me so. And daily, remember to hug a tree and beg it's forgiveness for
your past sins.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
And my rhetoric is needed when red state consumerism
threatens the planet. The title of the post could also be considered
HYPERBOLE, which is often used in arguments and to make a valid point.
Why, thank you, sir. I always appreciate a chance to improve myself
by learning something I did not know. Hmmm, rhetoric ... hyperpole
... interesting concepts. I'll have to think about those and how they
might be used.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Look it up in the dictionary (if you have one, perhaps lurking under
that paintball gun or stack of Penthouse mags).
But ... aren't dictionaries commonly made out of wood?

BTW, I own no paintball guns or Penthouse magazines.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Do you deny that
nearly all pulp comes from overseas and much is harvested illegally?
I don't know that I denied anything. In fact, was kind of waiting for
you to present your evidence and proof. Anyone can make an accusation
or assertion. That does not mean that they are telling the truth.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
But it doesn't even matter if it is "legal" because corrupt governments
like Indonesia and Malaysia and Singapore and Thailand and Myanmar and
on and on make the freakin' laws, people! And the U.S./U.S. businesses
support/prop up/do business with all these places!
Hmmm. Does this perhaps mean that anyone Asian or Maylay MUST somehow
be immoral and corrupt? And that anyone doing any business or trade
with them must also be at least as immoral and corrupt?

Wow ... interesting concept.

Tell me, If you, Green, stop by a restaurant for a bite to eat. And
the cook in the kitchen is a pedophile. Doesn't that mean you support
pedophilia? Kindly don't deny it, ignorance is no excuse. I'd expect
that you do the right thing. And thoroughly investigate the owner and
all employees of that restaurant before eating there. Otherwise, by
your own logic you approve of and support anything any of them are
doing.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
But that's okay. Just go back to watching stock cars go round and round
an oval track and wetdreaming of being one of these white trash young
pretty boy driver's tire rotater. The wife/girlfriend/assorted sex
slave will take the SUV/F150 and do all your shopping anyway, right?
ROFLMAO !!!

I don't, and never have watched car races. And, unlike yourself
evidently, if I had I'd almost certainly have never noticed or thought
of the drivers as a "pretty boy". In fact, can't recall ever
thinking of a male as pretty. But, hey, it's okay with me if you do.
None of my business.

Now, my wife of 30 plus years does do most of the family shopping.
But that's her choice and preference. She likes to shop, and is good
at it. Whereas I deplore shopping. BTW, these days she drives a
Blazer. When she needs it because she has several passengers, is
shopping, or is towing our boat. Otherwise she tends to drive her
car, which is a compact that gets pretty durned good gas mileage. But
I must confess, I do drive an F150 for myself. <Shrug> Kind of need
it tho as I need the shell on the back with the tool and parts storage
bins and cabinets. A guy has got to make a living, yah know.

As concerns her being my sex slave. LOL. She does enjoy sex, a lot.
And doesn't HAVE to do anything she does not wish to do. But when it
comes to sex, there just isn't a lot she doesn't want to do. Her
attitude towards this is pretty much anytime, anywhere I'm ready,
she's ready. And if I'm not ready often enough to suit her, she'll
initiate the sexual advances, And if I put her off, she has no
hesitation in reminding me that that she doesn't actually need me to
enjoy herself sexually.

Hmmm. So you view women as necessarily being sex slaves? Have you
discussed this with your psychologist? You might want to mention it.
It might help him to understand more about you so that he can help you
with that anger and hate thing you seem to have going on.

Green, I'm a conservationist, by nature. And donate both money and my
time and sweat equity into various programs to clean up places,
improve wildlife habitat, and so forth. I don't just talk, I DO. I
don't point fingers at others and bad mouth em. I join real efforts
to make things better.

On the land where my main home is located, part of it is set aside
purposely as it is a wetland area. And I let the marsh grasses,
cattails and so forth grow naturally. And many a critter takes
advantage of that. Down the road from my home, I bought 50 acres of
of unwanted land from a farmer. Two reasons. Making a profit not
being one of those. I am a hunter (and fisherman) but I do like
nature's critters. And more often than I hunt them, I like to just
watch and observe them. It pleases me to have a sort of small,
private reserve. Where I can go an watch nature, relax, and so forth.
Lots of critters on that 50 acres, probably because they're seldom
bothered. The other day I was over there and watched a couple bald
eagles arguing over a rabbit one of em had killed. Second reason, I
do selectively harvest wood from over there. I thin out the growth
from time to time so the remaining trees and plants have more room and
sunlight. And as a side benefit, get firewood. I don't sell any of
it. Use some for myself, give some to family and friends.

At my lake place, I and numerous of our friends and neighbors keep an
eye out. For folks who do things they probably shouldn't. We don't
yell at em, curse em, or any of those things. Just, in friendly and
helpful fashion point out to em things like, "Geez, guy, maybe yah
ought to fix that fuel (or oil) leak. It's not good for the water,
you know. How about if I help you?" Or remind someone that tossing
trash into the lake, or on the ground is not a good thing. Or point
out to a cabin owner that dumping waste water high in phosphates into
the lake is not a good thing. Or remind someone that making high
speed runs thru the shallow weed beds isn't nice. Disturbs and
destroys area where the young fish are lving and growing. "Hey, would
yah slow it down? If yah want to go fast-fast, try over there, that's
a good place." So forth and so on.

Most folks aren't mean or deliberately trying to wreck things. Often,
they just don't know. Have a reasonable discussion with em, and most
will alter their ways. Come off as a crazy psycho full of hate, and
they'll tend to dismiss anything you say.

As a means of making a living, I do building automation and energy
management systems. A primary goal of which is to decrease excessive
use of and waste of ... energy.

And in that biz, you don't get anyone to listen to you if you approach
em with signs calling em names, spewing hatred and invectives, making
accusations, and so forth. You discuss things reasonably, and back up
everything yah say with proof and numbers. Real ones, as most of
those folks are not stupid, nor gullible. They can actually do math,
and understand it. And many are conversant in science and technology.
Real science and technology. I point out to them that while what I am
proposing is gonna cost em, often dearly, that there is a payback.
Improved comfort in their buildings (I do only commercial, industrial,
and large institutional work), while at the same time, less energy is
being used and wasted. Which is good for their pocketbook, and the
enviornment.

Nor do I make empty promises. It's normally part of our contract that
we prove every claim we make. And in the projects we install energy
usage and monitoring systems that keep detailed records. That prove
that when we're done, customer is actually saving energy ... and thus
utility costs. We make no wild assed claims using pseudo-science.
Solutions we offer are based upon real science and real math and
actually work.

Yup, you've got me pegged well, Green.

Bob
Johan
2005-03-03 14:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob G
Might I suggest you immediately strip yourself of all modern, man made
things? Get off the computer. And immediately go find a cave to live
in. Eat only that which you can grow or find yourself without
disturbing the trees, wear only clothing you make youself, make a fire
only if it's not wood you're using for fuel. Better yet, never, ever
make a fire for any reason whatsoever. I have it on good authority
that trees disapprove of fire. The old oak tree in my front yard told
me so. And daily, remember to hug a tree and beg it's forgiveness for
your past sins.
Sheeeeit, Man, He don't have to go to all that trouble. All he hasta do
is trespass on Ol' He Who Must Not Be Named, But His Initials Are Alan
Connor's, territory.

Five minutes and he'd have a chance to use his rhetoric and hyperbole on
some _real_ wood wasters.

That wood gas doesn't come easily.

Ol' Alan's Amazon's would have him down, out, and reprogrammed,
birth-controlled, and naked-in-the-woods-wondering-what-happened in
three, four minutes. He'd think wood harvesting the best process in the
world -- and the easiest.

Can't believe all us'ns paintball-playin' and Penthouse-readin' rednecks
ever made it through puberty. If'n we wuz as dumb as some 'o' these
folks think, we'd of died off before we was five.

I don't qualify either: I don't play paintball or read penthouse. Guess
I'll have to check the Foxworthy Rules to see if I can get in Rednecks
of America some other way.

Good Luck, GJ! We'uns'll be lookin' out fer ya ta come over the hills on
yer white horse to save us'ns from ourselves like a good nanny-statist
should.

Nice rebuttal, Bob! (including what I snipped)
Bob G
2005-03-04 00:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johan
Can't believe all us'ns paintball-playin' and Penthouse-readin' rednecks
ever made it through puberty. If'n we wuz as dumb as some 'o' these
folks think, we'd of died off before we was five.
Yep.
Post by Johan
I don't qualify either: I don't play paintball or read penthouse. Guess
I'll have to check the Foxworthy Rules to see if I can get in Rednecks
of America some other way.
Oh, there are many ways to get into the Redneck club.

One uncle of mine, like myself, was born dirt poor way in the
backhills. But managed to work his way thru college, and excel at it.
In fact, ended up with two PhD's. Did a couple research projects for
the DOD. Etc. Occassional professor at a college. And ended up
rubbing elbows with the intelligentsia, and the shakers and makers of
society. Later in life, lived in a rather elite area of a major city.
Used to tell me he was the "poor white trash" of the neighborhood. As
his house was very modest in comparison to most of his neighbors. It
was only worth about $1 million, that was back in 1974. (He was good
at what he did, one of his PhDs was in physics, he held several
patents, and other things he developed he sold rights to, for healthy
amounts.)

LOL ... his poor wife was always getting embarrassed by him.
Especially when they attended, or hosted, those high society parties.
It's like one they hosted. There were CEOs, mayors, highly placed
society matrons, etc attending. Aunt hired caterer's who prepared
choice gourmet food and other delicasies. Highlite of the party was
to be a wine tasting event. With some very choice, primo French
wines.

Thing was, after uncle had a few adult beverages, he tended to revert
to type. He ended up losing the fancy clothes and reappearing in
jeans and flannel shirt. Yelling for everybody to loosen up a mite,
and get comfy. Then, rejecting the gourmet food, he fired off a
barbeque pit and started cooking up a mess of his home made javelina
sausages, venison burgers, and racks of ribs.

Most of the "sophisticated" folks raised eyebrows, but were too polite
to say much. However they kept their distance. But not all. As the
smell of his cooking spread around, a small number of fellows, looked
around, then shrugged, muttered "This hell with this pretentious crap
!" loosened ties, untucked shirts and joined uncle. Or, perhaps it
was his friendly offer of alternative beverages. Instead of expensive
wines, I found that, when I wandered over to where he'd set up, he was
passing out beer and lemonaide. Telling all that a little lemonaide
on a hot day was the ONLY way to go. Uh huh. That "lemonaide" was
only half lemonaide. The other half was moonshine. (Which he used to
get from this fellow named John Connolly. Yep, the one who was a
Governor at one time.)

It wasn't too much longer before Unc was hollering that there MUST be
at least a couple women at the party who weren't stuffy and stuck up.
"So, how about it ladies? Surely someone will show us some tits?"

<G> I loved that man. And miss him. He's dead now, had an acident
while hunting, got gangrene, and the docs weren't able to save him.

There is a passing chance he qualified as a red neck.

Another uncle of mine died while duck hunting. He never missed duck
hunting season. The last hunt, he wasn't feeling too good before
hand. But was determined to go hunting. Despite his wife's pleadings
that he go see a doctor. Well, he bagged a duck, then had a heart
attack. Died on the spot. Even his wife admitted there was likely no
other way he'd have rather died. And when she ordered his casket, she
had the inside lined with embroidered silk, showing scenes of lakes,
forests, deer, and ... of course ... ducks. And during viewing and
visitation, she added a few duck decoys perched on top, and when yah
looked inside, she'd had his favorite shotgun laid in there with him.

There's a passing chance he was a red neck.

I don't think there is anything special yah gotta do to qualify for
being a redneck.

I think Jeff Foxworthy said it best, rednecks are simply "Gloriously
unsophisticated." I'd add, "Gloriously uncomplicated and
unpretentious."

Which, of course, does not also mean that they're stupid or ignorant.

Bob
Gunner
2005-03-04 04:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob G
I think Jeff Foxworthy said it best, rednecks are simply "Gloriously
unsophisticated." I'd add, "Gloriously uncomplicated and
unpretentious."
Which, of course, does not also mean that they're stupid or ignorant.
Bob
Bravo, and well said!

Gunner


Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael
pyotr filipivich
2005-03-04 09:05:27 UTC
Permalink
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Bob G <***@yahoo.com>
wrote back on Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:20:01 -0600 in misc.survivalism :

Snip several anecdotes demonstrating that there thin veneer of urban
sophistication is oft insufficient to belie their bucolic origins.
Post by Bob G
I don't think there is anything special yah gotta do to qualify for
being a redneck.
I think Jeff Foxworthy said it best, rednecks are simply "Gloriously
unsophisticated." I'd add, "Gloriously uncomplicated and
unpretentious."
Oh gad, reminds me of Pat. He were a good old boy from Georgia.
(Rednecks and Good old boys have many things in common, but rednecks toss
the empties out of the truck, Good ol' Boys toss 'em in the back. Reckon
they're a might more considerate. Or just want to get the deposits back.)
Anyway, I think it was he, maybe someone else, who pointed out that when
good old boys get rich, they still drink Moonshine, but out of Steuben cut
glass Mason Jars.

Of course, truth be told, old money tends to do thing in an
unpretentious manner at times as well. After all, the worse thing you can
do is Dip into Capital, so thrift is important.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine
Bob G
2005-03-04 11:44:03 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 09:05:27 GMT, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Snip several anecdotes demonstrating that there thin veneer of urban
sophistication is oft insufficient to belie their bucolic origins.
Post by Bob G
I don't think there is anything special yah gotta do to qualify for
being a redneck.
I think Jeff Foxworthy said it best, rednecks are simply "Gloriously
unsophisticated." I'd add, "Gloriously uncomplicated and
unpretentious."
Oh gad, reminds me of Pat. He were a good old boy from Georgia.
(Rednecks and Good old boys have many things in common, but rednecks toss
the empties out of the truck, Good ol' Boys toss 'em in the back. Reckon
they're a might more considerate. Or just want to get the deposits back.)
Anyway, I think it was he, maybe someone else, who pointed out that when
good old boys get rich, they still drink Moonshine, but out of Steuben cut
glass Mason Jars.
Of course, truth be told, old money tends to do thing in an
unpretentious manner at times as well. After all, the worse thing you can
do is Dip into Capital, so thrift is important.
tschus
pyotr
LOL .... !!!!

My bet is that the good ol' boys wanted to get the deposits back.

And, yes, I've met old money folks who could be surprisingly frugal.
I remember one couple who could in reality afford most anything they
wished.

And did regularly show largesse when wanting to impress others for
whatever reason. ie When smoozing with prospective customers, fellow
business people. Making the "right" connections.

But when not doing the above, left to do as they wished and were
inclined to do by nature. They were entirely different. Lived in a
very nice, but old home. The kitchen stove an antique. Not retained
BECAUSE it was an antique. Kept because it was paid for, still worked
adequately, and they just couldn't see spending money on a new one if
the old one still worked. Not just for a bunch of fancy new features
they'd been getting along without for years.

Same thing with main TV in the family room/den. Which was so old they
could only find one repairman in town (and it was a large city) who'd
even attempt to fix or tune it.

In clothing tastes, they bought conservative, timeless type garb.
Never what was "in fashion". And while they'd pay what it took to buy
the best, they'd wear wardrobe items til they were about ready to fall
apart. And cost of repair was greater than cost of buying new.

In most of their dining, they ate at home. And when doing so, the
food was pretty basic and simple stuff. Neither actually being fond
of gourmet or fancy foods. Especially given the cost.

Ditto, their drinking habits. Simple, basic. Generic sodas, cheap
booze. But they did keep "the good stuff" on hand if they had
important guests.

Same things with cars. Would buy good ones, but grimaced at the
purchase price. Even tho what would amount to a small fortune to me,
was mere pocket change to them. Then they'd drive thing until it was
beyond repair. They'd not even consider buying a new car just to get
a new car, or some new, fancy feature.

LOL ... nice folks, but could pinch a penny with the best. And not
feel like they were doing without. Just weren't interested in new
just because it was new, or fancy just because, or being in the latest
fashion, or etc. Just didn't care about such things.

Only weakness both had, was a love of snow skiing. Probably took a
snow skiing trip 5 or 6 times a year. (No snow where they lived.) And
would pay whatever it cost, without blinking, when in the mood to ski.

Probably why the "old money" they started with, grew rather than
dwindled. Both held jobs, neither of the jobs being exceptional. He
was an ordinary engineer, she a grade school teacher. With their
ordinary living habits, rarely necessary for them to touch that
"capital" in the bank and in investments they'd inherited. And when
they did, it was so infrequent that it represented only a fraction of
interest and return on investment they were making on that "old
money".

Unsurprisingly, their two sons grew up to be much like em. I'm still
in touch with em. One is a archaeologist (ordinary one, not famous)
and the other a computer programmer. Except to fund their college
degrees, I don't think either has touched the money given em by their
parents. Not to any significant degree.

Bob
pyotr filipivich
2005-03-04 16:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob G
And, yes, I've met old money folks who could be surprisingly frugal.
I remember one couple who could in reality afford most anything they
wished.
And did regularly show largesse when wanting to impress others for
whatever reason. ie When smoozing with prospective customers, fellow
business people. Making the "right" connections.
But when not doing the above, left to do as they wished and were
inclined to do by nature. They were entirely different. Lived in a
very nice, but old home. The kitchen stove an antique. Not retained
BECAUSE it was an antique. Kept because it was paid for, still worked
adequately, and they just couldn't see spending money on a new one if
the old one still worked.
That's part of how you get to be "old money" ancestors who saw no
reason to spend money replacing things which worked.
Post by Bob G
Not just for a bunch of fancy new features they'd been getting along without for years.
A-yup.
Post by Bob G
In clothing tastes, they bought conservative, timeless type garb.
Never what was "in fashion". And while they'd pay what it took to buy
the best, they'd wear wardrobe items til they were about ready to fall
apart. And cost of repair was greater than cost of buying new.
You pay extra for quality, but you save in not having to replace it as
often.

I buy shoes in sets - two pairs of shoes. Worn every ther day, they'll
last longer than three pairs worn every day.
Post by Bob G
In most of their dining, they ate at home. And when doing so, the
food was pretty basic and simple stuff. Neither actually being fond
of gourmet or fancy foods. Especially given the cost.
Ditto, their drinking habits. Simple, basic. Generic sodas, cheap
booze. But they did keep "the good stuff" on hand if they had
important guests.
Keep the bottles ...

On those lines, I've heard of restaurants which price the inferior
wines higher than the "good" stuff, on the theory that those who don't know
wine tend to select by the right hand columns (looking for the most
expensive as a means to impress others), while those who do know their
wines order the wine they like regardless.

Or as my brother put it, he drinks Beaujolais on occasion, not because
it is Trendy, but because he likes it.
--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine
Johan
2005-03-04 12:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob G
Post by Johan
Can't believe all us'ns paintball-playin' and Penthouse-readin' rednecks
ever made it through puberty. If'n we wuz as dumb as some 'o' these
folks think, we'd of died off before we was five.
Yep.
Post by Johan
I don't qualify either: I don't play paintball or read penthouse. Guess
I'll have to check the Foxworthy Rules to see if I can get in Rednecks
of America some other way.
Oh, there are many ways to get into the Redneck club.
One uncle of mine,
<Snip>
Post by Bob G
<G> I loved that man. And miss him. He's dead now, had an acident
while hunting, got gangrene, and the docs weren't able to save him.
There is a passing chance he qualified as a red neck.
Seems so. I think I would have liked him too.
Post by Bob G
Another uncle of mine died while duck hunting. He never missed duck
hunting season. And during viewing and
visitation, she added a few duck decoys perched on top, and when yah
looked inside, she'd had his favorite shotgun laid in there with him.
There's a passing chance he was a red neck.
Sounds like you had some great men for uncles. you certainly were
blessed with those two.
Post by Bob G
I don't think there is anything special yah gotta do to qualify for
being a redneck.
I think Jeff Foxworthy said it best, rednecks are simply "Gloriously
unsophisticated." I'd add, "Gloriously uncomplicated and
unpretentious."
Yep. So often sophistication mires itself in sophistry.
Post by Bob G
Which, of course, does not also mean that they're stupid or ignorant.
Bob
I had a terrible time with Algebra in high school. Fortunately I had two
people to get me through; a teacher who wouldn't _let_ me fail and a
family friend who invited me to his home in Dayton for a few weeks over
summer vacation.

The teacher, Mary B. Dye, I hated as only a teenager can hate and I wish
now I could tell her how much I owe her and love and honor her memory.
She was a teachers' teacher. There were and are too few of her ilk.

I'd love to hear her "You. will. _NOT_. fail. my. class" again. Well,
Mrs. Dye, I didn't and you didn't socially promote me through either.
Thanks.

The friend, who never had a degree to his name, oversaw the Machine
Learning Project at Wright-Patterson. The folks who invented and built
the first primitive learning circuits were no intellectual slouches, but
respected him highly. Not one complained when he was promoted over their
Ph.D.s etc.

He got me interested in how math worked rather than worrying about
getting a grade, got me over my mathaphobia and tutored me for two weeks
four hours a day and let me enjoy it. He got me through Algebra alright,
and into trig and a smattering of calc. Never had a moment's trouble
with the subject after that.

He, too, was a teacher to be reckoned with.

Aside, he had a couple of informal gatherings those two weeks. Many of
his coworkers came for evenings of barbeque, beer, wine, and
conversation. For a 14-year-old, those times were like watching the gods
at their work!

I hardly understood a third of their conversation, but it was clear
these folks knew their stuff.:)

Oh, well, I ramble. Thanks for bringing out some memories.
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2005-03-04 12:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
"illegal timber" as in the present ALL harvested wood is morally
reprehensible.
Bullshit. Timber is a renewable resource. It is entierly possible to
harvest it in a responsible manner. Overly broad statements, and
especially those which mix up morality and wise stwardship, are fuel for
hte anti-environmentalist fire.




And my rhetoric is needed when red state consumerism
Post by g***@hotmail.com
threatens the planet. The title of the post could also be considered
HYPERBOLE, which is often used in arguments and to make a valid point.
Look it up in the dictionary (if you have one, perhaps lurking under
that paintball gun or stack of Penthouse mags). Do you deny that
nearly all pulp comes from overseas and much is harvested illegally?
But it doesn't even matter if it is "legal" because corrupt governments
like Indonesia and Malaysia and Singapore and Thailand and Myanmar and
on and on make the freakin' laws, people! And the U.S./U.S. businesses
support/prop up/do business with all these places!
But that's okay. Just go back to watching stock cars go round and round
an oval track and wetdreaming of being one of these white trash young
pretty boy driver's tire rotater. The wife/girlfriend/assorted sex
slave will take the SUV/F150 and do all your shopping anyway, right?
--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower
Robert Sturgeon
2005-03-04 14:42:03 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:49:41 +0000 (UTC),
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by g***@hotmail.com
"illegal timber" as in the present ALL harvested wood is morally
reprehensible.
Bullshit. Timber is a renewable resource. It is entierly possible to
harvest it in a responsible manner. Overly broad statements, and
especially those which mix up morality and wise stwardship, are fuel for
hte anti-environmentalist fire.
I don't know anyone who actually favors damaging the
environment. The division is between those who want to use
the environment wisely and for the benefit of people (which
implies stewardship, as in the productive management of
forests and farm land) and nutcases who say things like
"ALL harvested wood is morally reprehensible." Like
"liberal," the term "environmentalist" should be used in
quotation marks to designate people who claim to be
environmentalists but who really aren't. They have given
"liberal" a bad name and they have done the same to
"environmentalist." Like most Americans, I am a liberal and
an environmentalist. My areas of agreement with "liberals"
and "environmentalists" are extremely limited.

(rest snipped)

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
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